A Warning About the Seagull ST-3600 vs ETA/ Unitas 6497

Over the last few days, I spent several hours working on three Seagull ST-3600 movements also referred to as the Asian 6497. My original goal involved lubricating the movement. Seagull acts as an ebauche  manufacturer and ships the 3600 without lubrication. Seagull expects their customers such as Fossil, Invicta and Timex to lubricate the movements before shipping them to retailers.

A year ago, I became the recipient of approximately five ST-3600 movements for my own use. Knowing the condition of watches, I began servicing them.

Many posts on watch forums discuss the two-year life span of the unoiled Chinese movement. I wanted to see that for myself. Did Seagull really ship movements without lubricating them?

I received my watches from two Parnis dealers and in fact, they lacked any lubrication. I also discovered that Parnis sold factory seconds from a third party instead of Seagull.

The major problem with the Parnis movements involved the wheel train (I'll mention the balance toward the end.) I'm guessing that Seagull rejected the Parnis ST-3600's because of quality control issues with the wheel train.

Unlike the ETA/Unitas, the wheel train bridge on the Seagull simply refuses to fit easily. In fact, it's quite difficult and takes a significant amount of time and effort to work.

Once you oil the jewels, the wheels do not remain in place so the bridge doesn't ease onto the train. The primary issue revolves around the fourth wheel. It has too much end shake and refuses to remain in a stable position. The third wheel does not reach the fourth and the escape wheel receives no power. To correct the flaw, the fourth wheel requires an adjustment after the bridge goes into position.

I can understand this happening with a single watch. Initially, I thought, I bent pivots. I just didn't see any flaws on the wheel.  To make sure I didn't damage the fourth wheel, I dismantled another ST-3600. The same problem occurred again. The fourth wheel refused to play nice with its neighbors.

OK, so, I tried another ST-3600 to see what happens when the jewels and pivots remain dry. Ah. Little problem. The refurbisher made the correction when the movement had no lubrication.

I became concerned. Pivots on various parts of wheels on the dial side and the mainspring barrel will grind without lubrication. It's not as bad as metal to metal, but it's not easy on the pivots.

I think that within the next five to ten years, we will have some products that will be at
the same level as the Swiss. There are some areas where we are not yet up to the Swiss. - Wang De Ming, Manager, SeaGull October, 2009 

The Swiss are the masters and we are the students. We make no pretensions about competing with Swiss watchmaking. One day, though, we believe that there will be a place for us in the global market. Aries Lee - Deputy General Manager, Seagull February, 2012

Next, I dismantled a Unitas 497 movement - a close kin to the 6497 and similar to other Swiss movements with which I had significant familiarity. Five years ago, I trained on AS 984 - another close kin to the Unitas 6497.

The wheels sat nicely in the jewels and the bridge practically fell into place. I don't like working on the train of wheel of any watch, but the Swiss movement seemed easy. The Seagull reminded me of a 1920's 6 jewel Elgin. The wheel pivots on those old watches have significant end shake and are like a nightmare.

Another problem I encountered with the Seagull had to do with the mainspring. Again, Seagull provided an insufficient component. The end broke after a week. I can understand that happening randomly. It happened in a week.

I have not found parts for any Seagull movements. I have no complaints with the balance wheel or the keyless works (winding and setting mechanism). Of course, the setting lever needed some lubricant as did the barrel and the setting components.

When I went to lubricate the balance wheel pivots, I recognized another problem. The regulator with the stud holder proved very difficult to loosen. The stud is held in by friction and requires an  etacheron tool to loosen. I found the Seagull  post with a smaller post. It required delicate work to loosen.

Given the time I spent on the Seagull, I decided to switch back to the ETA 6497 plain movement at $189 from Otto Frei or Swiss Made Time. It didn't seem that different until I decided to tear it down and reassemble it. It was a breeze.

ETA raised their prices and I should have expected that. Still, ETA  provides a superior product even at the higher price point.

I'm not planning to work on the Seagull movements in the future. I will include a disclaimer to my customers as to my opinion as to the life span of Seagull movements. I have found a wholesaler for the Seagull ST-3600 and will help when it comes to needed service. At the cost, it's like replacing a quartz movement.

Next, I plan to test Hangzhou's version of the 6497. I'll report back soon. My expectation isn't optimistic at this point.



Conclusion

If this article seems too technical for you, but you made it this far, just take note. Don't expect an unserviced  Seagull ST-3600 to last more than couples of years with continuous wear. As a comparison, I have Unitas 6497 movements in watches that are 50 years old.

 
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